The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance,

then what is the use of advancing further?



1. How do you simultaneously reject the spiritual master and accept the spiritual  master? SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA. Cheaters of the lowest kind.
2. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance,
    then what is the use of advancing further?
3. Well, as you like to do we calls them as we sees them.
4. Hearing from the wrong UN-bona fide source has been rejected as of day one.
5. in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna   Consciousness.

6. This consciousness is a great pleasure for a women psychologically

1. How do you simultaneously reject the spiritual master and accept the spiritual master? SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA. Cheaters of the lowest kind.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada, Jagat Guru of the Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Dear Mukunda Dasa:
 Recently on one of the sahajiya web sites, VNN, a group of mental
speculators, regurgitated a document displaying their complete lack of
surrender to Srila Prabhupada. They have also proposed that these suggestions
constitutes varnasrama implementation. WHAT A JOKE! I will not stay quiet
while they spew more poison vani, like a snake regurgitating a vile mixture
from the depths of his belly. This letter is addressed to the authors of this
heresy and all sahajiyas.
 Firstly and lastly they (the collective authors) have the audacity to reject
Srila Prabhupada as diksa/siksa acarya of ISKCON, by accepting that the
present cheaters in the guise of Guru, have any diksa giving capabilities
what so ever. They are eunuchs in the presents of the real spiritual master,
Srila Prabhupada.

 Lecture 701219SB. "It is for everyone, Pancaratriki-vidhi. The
pancaratriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being
elevated to the sreyah platform, he should be given chance. That is called
pancaratriki-vidhi. Just like diksa initiation. Sudras are not given
initiation. The sudra cannot be initiated. Only the brahmanas can be
initiated, or dvija, or the vaisya and the ksatriya, the higher cast, not the
sudra. But according to pancaratriki-vidhi, even the sudras or less then the
sudras, kirata-huunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa, everyone can be initiated by a
bona fide representative of Krsna, not by others. That is the system."

 "Everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Krsna, not by
others. That is the system" Read the qualities of the bona fide
representative of Krsna in the SB. 1.5.25. Then send these pretend Rurus to
the kitchen to cut vegetables with their mouths shut or let them sweep the
sidewalks, as Srila Prabhupada says in the letter to Brahmananda about
Kirtananda just after Kirtananda's taking of sannyasa and consequent sahajiya
preaching in NY. They are authorized for no other service. Then let us talk
of varnasrama dharma. They call their proposal a varnasrama inspired
conclusion? How do you simultaneously reject the spiritual master and accept
the spiritual master? SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA, SAHAJIYA. Cheaters of the lowest
 Simply using the standard descriptions from the revealed scriptures
(anything Prabhupada produced) we can immediately ascertain that the
vanaprasta is a sort of concessionary sannyasa. Semiretirement, highly
restricted contact with a woman (wife) not to include social management
 Wearing a white dhoti doesn't automatically give anyone the capabilities of
a manager. A manager is a ksatriya. By quality, guna and karma. You aren't
even trying to get it right, just more self centered rhetoric. No discussion
of the divisions of varnas? The definitions and descriptions of the varna and
asramas? The qualities to look for? Symptoms to be embraced by each varna?
Only this poison vani proposal?

 Prabhupada gave in his last will and testament a power house definition of
the qualifications of a leader in ISKCON.

 "The executive directors who have been designated are appointed for life. In
the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said
directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the
remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple
following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society
for Krsna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are
never less than three(3) or more than five(5) executive directors acting at
one time."

 Can it be any plainer? His initiated disciple, bas, stop right there, end of
sahajiya story. " my initiated disciple" old fools, forever, no other diksa
Gurus to ever be in the Gaudiya-sampradya/ISKCON, to take Prabhupada's place
for the next ten-thousand years. After the end of the golden age of Kali
yuga, we have no information. So have at it. If you replace Prabhupada then
you are not ISKCON or Gaudiya-matha. Prabhupada IS the self effulgent acarya,
fore told by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja, to appear in the Gaudiya-matha
after his passing.
  "Follow strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society
for Krsna Consciousness as detailed in my books " STRICTLY not haphazardly,
as has been the truthful and honest history. You beat your wife's, exploit
them, divorcee them, sedate them, rape, molest and torture thousands of
children and then pose as the best of brahmanas allowing your unqualified
children to freely intermingle for unrestricted sex life. You are the worst
of man kind, lower than sudra there by only suitable for habitation in a
jungle and this goes for your supporters also.
 What have we done? We will tell you what we have done, followed the rules
and regulation of ISKCON for most of our twenty-seven years in connection to
Srila Prabhupada. Acted in line with our varna and produced six consecutive
sons, not by accident, but by intent, in line with our varna, to produce
suitable royal lineage. We have utilized the regulative principles to guide
the family for twenty-one years. The proof of the success is in the content
of their hearts, the members of the Bhakti family. We challenge any to test
if the varna and asrama are intact or not according to Srila Prabhupada's
vani. Be therefore situated in your own natural condition before attempting
to administer a test on us.
 Also in His will, Prabhupada says that if a person for any reason fails to
act that he should immediately be removed and replaced. Boy that's a laughs,
ISKCON management and their respective cheerleaders and supporters all fall
in to that category in spades. So who among the collective "they" do they
think will be actually qualified?
 One time while guarding Srila Prabhupada during his last visit to Detroit in
76, We had the opportunity to sit in his room and observe the goings on with
the spiritual master. We were having a one on one conversation about the
deterioration of the so-called sankirtan activities at this time, and I asked
Prabhupada to authorize my change of service from the pick to something else.
Prabhupada said that was OK, "So what do you want to do?" He asked. My heart
fell into confusion, because I was doing what I wanted, guarding Srila
Prabhupada, protection and management. Nothing else was attractive. But I
told him "I don't know Srila Prabhupada." Duh. The poison vani that Srila
Prabhupada only wanted brahmans, had scuttled the verbalization of our most
heart felt desire. To be His top most Ksatriya.
 Later when the opportunity came to travel as Prabhupada's personal guard we
were told by the sahajiya leaders that we had to provide our own tickets when
traveling. How ridiculous, The ksatriya doesn't have production in his job
description. Protection and management. Not production, that is for the
vaisya varna. Where was varnasrama? It was two years after the direct order
from Prabhupada to start it in ISKCON.
 Why was I denied my right full service? Bad karma? Yes, does that mean that
the leaders should impose a bad karma situation on me? No. Not me nor to any
of the thousand children that were abused ether. A person may have something
coming, good or bad, we should never agree to be the instrument of another's
bad karma without thinking three times and taking all steps to avoid giving
other living entities pain. It only takes the truthful and honest gentle
person once to know not to abuse the children or cheat the wife. Or that the
ksatriya needs revenue to support himself. Tax from the vaisya.
  We have seven children and not once have any been abused, although they are
completely in our control as children and my wife has never been touched. We
have lived these words actively for twenty-one years, talked the talk and
walked the walk. Point and scoff all you want. We have practiced what we
preach. What have they done? NOTHING! Thirty years is proof enough for a
gentleman that they are asara. 
  Time and time again the honest and truthful devotee will perceive the
existence of poison vani in the rhetoric that pervades the Internet or any
other forum, sometime he remains quiet and sometime he gets angry, each are
displays his mercy. Maybe you get it, maybe you don't.
 The "Proposal To Restructure The ISKCON GBC" is so full of poison that it is
not worth dismantling line by line. Just try to read and hear from Srila
Prabhupada on the subject of varnasrama-dharma and stop this sahajiya vomit
from entering the atmosphere of aspiring devotee congregations or web sites.
Follow the rules and regulations from Prabhupada only, there is no need to
speculate continually. Thereby defusing your effectiveness. The history of
the members of ISKCON/Gaudiya-matha, inside and outside, speaks volumes in
its self. As a group you are completely ineffective losers who do not in many
ways even REFLECT the vani of Srila Prabhupada, let alone EMBRACE it.
PUD-mans rejection of our announcement for the need of Caitanya Jivan, our
son, to get married is more of the same sahajiya mentalities.  Prabhupada
says it, we believe it and are strictly following if it. You who don't, well
you just don't and are asara.

Thank you, Hare Krsna.  Caturbahu Dasa Bhakti

PS. Dhamagosh is for once in his whore mongering (prostitution), cheating,
woman beating, mental child abusing life, right about something, the sradha
ceremony, offering pindi once a year, is to be performed by us, as part of
varnasrama-dharma. Oh by the way D'ghost man, it is very sahajiya to judge an
aspiring devotee only by his/her bank balance or their ability to produce
like a vaisya or if from the higher varnas, to work like a sudra. Until you
publish a public retraction, you are liable. And olive oil is not an
ingredient of Gauranga potatoes
2. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance,
    then what is the use of advancing further?
Dear Caturbahu prabhu. pamho. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Very nice article, strong preaching, jai prabhu.

I haven't read their article but the point you make " They call their
proposal a varnasrama inspired conclusion? How do you simultaneously reject
the spiritual master and accept  the spiritual master? SAHAJIYA,SAHAJIYA,
SAHAJIYA. Cheaters of the lowest  kind." Is very nice.

Srila Prabhupada says on this point:

The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance, then what is the use
of advancing further? If your basic principle is calculated wrong, then
whatever you construct on that wrong background, everything is wrong.
mistake done in the beginning, then plus minus, plus minus, ultimately it is
wrong. So our Krsna consciousness means that unless you take seriously what
Krsna says, you are simply jumping like animals. This is Krsna
consciousness. First of all, you understand your position, what Krsna says.
Then go ahead. You do not understand the basic principle what Krsna says and
you are declaring yourself, "I am reading Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavad-gita is
my life," and so on

 [Interview with Mr. Kosh (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) April 5, 1977, Bombay]

So apa-iskcon's basic principle is guru-avajna, to offend and disobey the
bona-fide spiritual master Srila Prabhupada. So whatever they construct on
this envious background will just be more and more offenses to Srila
Prabhupada's lotus feet and nothing more.

So unless they take seriously what Srila Prabhupada says they are simply
jumping like animals. The members of apa-iskcon should first understand that
they are also servere offenders for supporting such a sinister movement and
take serious shelter of Srila Prabhupada's tapes and original books for
purification of their mayavadi contaminations. Then things will become clear
how to go ahead, otherwise by their sahajiya mentalities they will just make
a complete farce out of varnasrama and by such cheap cheating behaviour they
will only poison the innocent public more and more and drive them further
and further away from real Vedic culture.
In fact their "varnasrama program" is simply another attempt to blaspheme
vedic culture and Srila Prabhupada.

Your servant Mukunda dasa.

P.S. The same principle applies to the bogus reform groups PADA and IRM.
PADA's basic principle is to defame Srila Prabhupada all over the world to
achieve their "reform" and IRM's basic principle is to give some bogus interpretation
on the the holy transcendental words of Srila Prabhupada to achieve their "reform"

"You guys step down from this bogus guru program and become shitviks
and we with our big IQ's and mundane material logic will write a nice paper
for you which will defuse the poison issue. Then we can all dance and chant
together and increase our bile secretions and fill our bellies with some
juicy praSINdam. Very nice program ! Everyone, all the demon killers and
their followers are Srila Prabhupada's officially initiated disciples by the
shitvik system, and we get all the credit for our reformed movement"
Well no kidding brother, sounds like a cooool program, nice and simple eh !

P.P.S. Shitvik system unlike the ritvik system applied in a geniue society of
Srila Prabhupada followers and based on correct understanding of the Acarya
and his teachings.
3. Well, as you like to do we calls them as we sees them.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Dear Puranjana dasa:
  To what do we owe this dubious pleasure of a personal correspondence form
you? Well, as you like to do we calls them as we sees them.
  In previous news letters of yours there was a call for some contact with
the news media in India, preferably an investigative reporter as we remember.
If you knew of Visnu-murti dasa, then why the open call? As if you yourself
knew of no one to contact. Sounds fishy. That you did not print the letter
was of no concern, Prabhupada already read it, you print or you don't print
as you like. But the address information was for all and any that might want
to have a contact in India and was an offering on that level. Printing the
contact with no letter attached would have been acceptable. Also if you chose
to not print, it would be gentlemanly not to comment like you chose to do
with our son. Where your comments protective of this boy? Duh, no, you
displayed with your rude comments no knowledge of vedic culture, you should
not comment were you are out of your league
  But this is small potatoes compared to the blasphemy going on in the name
of helping some children that were abused. Firstly it was their karma to be
in that place of abuse at those times that the abuse took place. Not a blade
of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord. Or do you not believe this
statement? That the so-called devotees treated them with such distrain is of
course an other thing. The perpetrators of this heinous abuse must pay the
price now and in the future. No acts go unrewarded or unpunished. and if we
can help, then so be it.
 Those that carried on such abuse and their cheerleader supporters (were you
a supporter at sometime)? Will not get away with what has taken place. We may
want to use violence against them but it is not our time, place and
circumstances. Neither is it anyone else's out side of the law of the land,
at this time, save and except Krsna himself.
  Unlike most of you resent converts we were speaking out against these
APA-ISKCON people sense 74. Were you? We lost our first wife in late 76 do to
our big mouth. We never supported any of this demoniac behavior in the guise
of devotional service, from day one, hour one, the first five minutes. What
about you? How did you achieve any acceptance in ISKCON if not by compliance
at some time? You were surely guilty of conspiracy if you at all supported
any vani poisoning in any form. Let he who is without the original sin of
accepting poison vani cast the first stone. You are all guilty of compliance
and silence in the face of the enemy of poison vani.
 As far as Mr. Mukunda dasa and that rabble-rouser Sanat dasa go I like the
way they write and from their letters they are my kind of men. However, if
now or in the future I see them write something that is in support of
APA-ISKCON, we will have no more hesitation than we are with you to speak out
against that mentality. We are our own man, surrendered as much as possible
at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada. We have been a group of one for
twenty-seven years and are not impressed with an obvious jugglery of words to
suite some private agenda.
  The Gurukula people should wake up and smell the roses. We and our wife
were also barbarically mistreated in our child hoods and we put all the blame
for what happened to us on the perpetrators, our own parents, mother in my
case, father in my wife's case. Yet healing did not begin until we read Srila
Prabhupada's Bhagavad-Gita in early 74. Fore our wife, when she married me.
Karma was a very big lessen for us. We are all responsible for everything
that happens to us, the good and bad comes from our own past activities and
not someone else's. Is it anyone's fault except our own doing that we wear
glasses? Our mother didn't wear glasses, so what about me? We do not like
glasses but here they are on our face and there they stay for the purpose of
utility. Karma. OK, so this example is minimal to say the least but the point
should be understood. Karma. No devotee should enthusiastically impose pain
on an innocent, let alone Krsna's devotee children. We have a choice, it is
called free will. To act righteously according to the reveled scripture or to
be an adverse, grotesque demon in character is always our own personal
discussion. You and all the rest were following these demon people from the
beginning. And now you are standing next to the abused children as a mentor?
Oh boy, these kids are stupider than we thought.
 Even though no innocent person should be abused, it happens. It should never
have happened in ISKCON, not even in the most demoniac of dreams. Where were
you in the early days of Dallas? Supporting the local bogus personality in
the guise of an advanced disciple? This law suit is out of proportion, we are
also the product of abuse in ISKCON. Is anyone running to our aid with an
offer of ksatriya service? Even a small village? No, he is a psychotic, is
all you and Dravinaksa can muster. Ever Mahananda in support of Nanda dasi
was more eloquent, but careful to separate himself from accepting a
grotesquely fallen standard of chastity.

Thank you, Hare Krsna  Caturbahu dasa Bhakti
4. Hearing from the wrong UN-bona fide source has been rejected as of day one.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada, Jai Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai.

Dear Mukunda dasa, Sanat and friends
  Today is Sunday and on Sunday we have a Sunday feast. The Sunday feast at
home is to replace what has been changed in our lives by rejecting
association with ISaCON. A meal, and not a very good one from ISKCON. At one
time or another, all of our family members has experienced sickness do to
taking so-called prasadam at the temple in Alachua.
  With these bogus prasadam events happening at New Ramanreti, (food
poisoning) it made my wife and I very thoughtful as to how to protect our
children from the ISKCON poison. Firstly, in the beginning of our marriage,
she was instructed to never sit in any of the cheating guru classes from the
very beginning of our marriage. She has never, to her credit, heard any of
them speak. So consequently none of the children have heard from the
sahajiyas either. And this includes their followers or supporters. Hearing
from the wrong UN-bona fide source has been rejected as of day one. One way
the man chastely protects the family. Do not hear from sahajiyas, it will
have a poisons effect, just as milk touched by the lips of a serpent has a
poisonous effect
  Next is the food. We have to admit that although we were shown by
Prabhupada the error of our ways we were slow to act. While at the Seattle
temple we saw that the Indian children were eating off of the deities plate
and although correction was offered, Uncle Harry did not want to upset the
gravy train. The anomalies at that temple just increase from there. Don't eat
the food in ISaCON (bogus ISKCON) we are just this last year implementing
this family standard. True ISKCON prasadam can only come from those aspiring
devotees that follow Prabhupada's vani, consequently only offering to Srila
Prabhupada, in a mood of being a Prabhupadanuga. There is no question of
directly approaching the supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna Caitanya.
Only by the current link, Srila Prabhupada.
  To prepare a Sunday feast takes a cooperative mood from all of the
participants involved. In this case our large family. Some times everything
goes on at such a high level of efficiency and consciousness that we feal as
though the demigods themselves have appeared and we have only been their
maidservants. Other times, well other times it is as though we have descended
to the hellish planets. What could be the difference? Consciousness, being in
ones senses and aware of ones surroundings. Mental activity, including
emotion and thought, the upper level of mental life, as opposed to
subconscious mental processes. Cooperation.
  Cooperation is tantamount for the execution of any group activity.
Varnasrama-dharma especially. By natures way there is a natural sequence of
events that are needed for the fructification of any plan, these any of you
who are scholarly can fill in from Prabhupada's books. Man proposes, God
disposes. We have proposed in our family that we have a Sunday feast and
although so many of the prerequisites are there and available, there at times
has been a great struggle to accomplish this. Why the struggle? Causeless
unwillingness to serve in our natural conditional state. The fish is out of
the water. The fish cannot serve as a bird and fly, the bird cannot swim down
to the deepest depths of the ocean. Out of our natural condition.

 "Our Krsna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the
illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false
understanding of civilization. The solders in this Krsna consciousness
movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power.
To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal
condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same
for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama -- brahmana,
ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmanacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa.
Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa." 
SB. 8.2.30

 In our example the activities are simple, a menu is collated, the
ingredients are procured, the stove is fired up and we begin. But wait there
is a problem, the curd was not made the night before as directed, now an
extra procedure will need to take place at an inopportune time. Crisis
management on a small scale. Better to have made the curd the night before so
it can drain and cool nicely. Oh no, the cookies are burning in the oven.
What has happened is a lack of conscious effort to remain vigilant, on the
job, pay attention to what you are doing. Conscious. They (the children) have
diverted their attention to sense gratification at the wrong time. Act and
react according to time, place and circumstance. Be hear now, do the needful.
Be conscious. But conscious of what? The direction that the manager has
given. If the authorized leader gives a good instruction and the other
participants neglect to act on his recommendation, then the desired out come
has little chance of manifesting. What can he do?
   And as every devotee in the household cooperates with the natural
divisions of human society, mother, father, child, sister and bother, the out
come is a wonderful feast. All the preparations are on a gourmet level of
accomplishment. The Bhakti can be tasted as an overwhelming ingredient in the
prasadam that remains. Every person is satisfied, happy and content from
CONSCIOUS execution of their respective duties, as an offering to the
spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, the only qualified recipient. Manager,
cook, preacher, vegetable cutter, dishwasher, author, purchasing agent,
transportation expert, no one feels less than the next devotee, all are equal
and share in the happy results from a cooperative spirit. While remaining in
our respective natural conditions. We have individually completed our tasks
so we(all) could give to each other, spiritual and moral encouragement, a
gift to the collective family consciousness.
  So Lord Caitanya has proposed and foretold that there is now taking place a
golden age of Kali yuga. Five hundred years past so far. But, at this time we
find our selves in a dilemma of gigantic proportions. All pervasive wholesale
sahajiyism. What to do?  How can we understand the complicated simplicity of
daivi-varnasrama-dharma? By following the leader with no augmentation from
our separate understanding. Who's the leader? The brahmana. Who is the most
qualified brahmana?  Why Srila Prabhupada of course. A simple formula. We
have no need to make up these ideas as we go, that is the way of sahajiya.
Taken cheaply.
 Cooperation is absolutely necessary for healthy growth in vedic society. One
varna cooperates with the other for the purpose of executing this sankirtan
movement. Preaching by example through adhesion to the regulative principles
that apply to the individual varna, also in accordance with the tenants of
the Pancaratriki-vidhi. A monumental task to compile from Srila Prabhupada's
vani, but doable and the immediate job of those that say they are brahmana.
We don't need all this such high understanding of devotional service. We are
here now in need of activity, not higher philosophy, at this moment. Preach
about the instructions of daivi-varnasrama first, so we can begin to build
society immediately. ISKCON is in shambles for thirty years, it is time for a
change of mentality. Daivi-varnasrama. Given by Prabhupada, desire of Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and as disseminated from Sri Krsna himself in all
the revealed scriptures.
  Having problems starting? Just begin at the beginning. Who are we? What is
our varna? Which asrama suites my mentality? Now act within the perimeters of
your chosen varna and cooperate with other devotees that are of this
varnasrama mind, surrender to each other in cooperation, nurture each other
in association. One maybe the leader and the other takes direction. No
problem. Drop false egos and behave as gentle persons should. Of course that
is with only Srila Prabhupada as guru.
  If one devotee preaches varnasrama and an other says "tell it to someone
that cares" then this is not conducive to either devotees mentality and they
should not associate. Like mindedness is a most important consideration. That
does not mean that one varna necessarily looks down on the other, but each
varna has in place a level of intelligence and qualities presented in the
reveled descriptions contained in Prabhupada's vani. We mean that Srila
Prabhupada is Guru, his vani lives, varnasrama is his managerial instruction.
In order to make honest claims to a particular varna we must encompass a
majority of the qualities of that varna. This will take honesty, self imposed
to the depth of your soul and the character to admit we are of a particular
class or mature. Most will find a combination of different varnas temporally
embodied in one devotee. No problem, if one varna is not naturally
predominate then go for the varna that is most elevated. But use caution, be
qualified, not as a cheater, not as sahajiya.

Thank you, Hare Krsna.  Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

PS. A tid bit from Prabhupada "For the sudra there is one asrama--that is the
grhastha asrama. And for the brahmanas, four asramas: brahmacari, grhastha,
vanaprastha, sannyasa. This for the brahmanas. For the ksatriya: brahmacari,
grhastha, vanaprastha. For the vaisyas: brahmacari and grhastha. And for the
sudra: no brahmacari, only family life, and that also sometimes without
marriage." (Lecture; September 2, 1975)
5. in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna Consciousness.

72-01-20. Letter: Sri Govinda
   There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books--in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna Consciousness.

The following is a practical analysis of  Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.2.45) purport composed by a conditioned soul Hridayananda das "goswami".

"Srila  Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura also points out in  his commentary, atra pasyed iti darsana-yogyataiva vivaksita, na tu tatha darsanasya sarva-kalikata. "in this verse the word pasyet, or " one must see," does not mean that at every moment one is visualizing the form of Krsna; rather, it means that  one has reached the exalted platform of devotional service on which he is fit to see or is capable of seeing Krsna's form." If only those who constantly see the form of Krsna are to be considered uttama-adhikaris, then Narada, Vyasa and Sukadeva cannot be considered topmost devotees, since they do not always see the Lord everywhere. Of course, Narada, Vyasa and Sukadeva are considered to be on the highest standard of pure devotional service, and therefore the real qualification is tad-didrksadhikya, or having overwhelming desire to to see the Lord.”


Uttama–adhikaris who are topmost devotees are the only ones who can constantly see the form of the Lord.



Mental Speculation from Hridayananda das “goswami”:

 “If only those who constantly see the form of Krsna are to be considered uttama-adhikaris, then Narada, Vyasa and Sukadeva cannot be considered topmost devotees, since they do not always see the Lord everywhere.”


POINT 1–we ALL agree.

4.12.11 P   Dhruva Maharaja Goes Back to Godhead

   Not only did Dhruva Maharaja perform many sacrifices, but he carried on his transcendental occupation of engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. The ordinary karmis, who want to enjoy the results of fruitive activities, are concerned only with sacrifices and ritualistic ceremonies as enjoined in the Vedic sastras. Although Dhruva Maharaja performed many sacrifices in order to be an exemplary king, he was constantly engaged in devotional service. The Lord always protects His surrendered devotee. A devotee can see that the Lord is situated in everyone's heart, as stated in the Bhagavad-gita (isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati). Ordinary persons cannot understand how the Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, but a devotee can actually see Him. Not only can the devotee see Him outwardly, but he can see, with spiritual vision, that everything is resting in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as described in Bhagavad-gita (mat-sthani sarva-bhutani). THAT IS THE VISION OF A MAHA-BHAGAVATA. HE SEES EVERYTHING OTHERS SEE, BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING MERELY THE TREES, THE MOUNTAINS, THE CITIES OR THE SKY, HE SEES ONLY HIS WORSHIPABLE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN EVERYTHING BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS RESTING IN HIM ONLY. THIS IS THE VISION OF THE MAHA-BHAGAVATA. IN SUMMARY, A MAHA-BHAGAVATA, A HIGHLY ELEVATED PURE DEVOTEE, SEES THE LORD EVERYWHERE, AS WELL AS WITHIN THE HEART OF EVERYONE. THIS IS POSSIBLE FOR DEVOTEES WHO HAVE DEVELOPED ELEVATED DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO THE LORD. AS STATED IN THE BRAHMA-SAMHITA (5.38), PREMANJANA-CCHURITA-BHAKTI-VILOCANENA: ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE SMEARED THEIR EYES WITH THE OINTMENT OF LOVE OF GODHEAD CAN SEE EVERYWHERE THE SUPREME LORD FACE TO FACE; IT IS NOT POSSIBLE BY IMAGINATION OR SO-CALLED MEDITATION.


SB 9.9.44 P           The Dynasty of Amsuman

   "The maha-bhagavata, the advanced devotee, certainly sees everything mobile and immobile, but he does not exactly see their forms. RATHER, EVERYWHERE HE IMMEDIATELY SEES MANIFEST THE FORM OF THE SUPREME LORD.


SB 3.14.48 S     Pregnancy of Diti in the Evening

   sah--he; vai--certainly; maha-bhagavatah--the topmost devotee;


POINT 2 We TOTALLY disagree.


.SB 7.1.27 P    The Supreme Lord Is Equal to Everyone

   Sriman Narada Muni, the TOPMOST PURE DEVOTEE, praises Krsna's enemies like Sisupala because their minds are always completely absorbed in Krsna


 SB 1.18.16 P Maharaja Pariksit Cursed by a Brahmana Boy

   There is some controversy amongst the students on the path of liberation. Such transcendental students are known as impersonalists and devotees of the Lord. The devotee of the Lord worships the transcendental form of the Lord, whereas the impersonalist meditates upon the glaring effulgence, or the bodily rays of the Lord, known as the brahmajyoti. Here in this verse it is said that Maharaja Pariksit attained the lotus feet of the Lord by instructions in knowledge delivered by the son of Vyasadeva, Srila Sukadeva Gosvami. SUKADEVA GOSVAMI WAS ALSO AN IMPERSONALIST IN THE BEGINNING, AS HE HIMSELF HAS ADMITTED IN THE BHAGAVATAM (2.1.9), BUT LATER ON HE WAS ATTRACTED BY THE TRANSCENDENTAL PASTIMES OF THE LORD AND THUS BECAME A DEVOTEE. SUCH DEVOTEES WITH PERFECT KNOWLEDGE ARE CALLED MAHA-BHAGAVATAS, OR FIRST-CLASS DEVOTEES. There are three classes of devotees, namely the prakrta, madhyama, and maha-bhagavata. The prakrta, or third-class devotees, are temple worshipers without specific knowledge of the Lord and the Lord's devotees. The madhyama, or the second-class devotee, knows well the Lord, the Lord's devotees, the neophytes, and the nondevotees also. But the maha-bhagavata, or the first-class devotee, sees everything in relation with the Lord and the Lord present in everyone's relation. The maha-bhagavata, therefore, does not make any distinction, particularly between a devotee and nondevotee. MAHARAJA PARIKSIT WAS SUCH A MAHA-BHAGAVATA DEVOTEE BECAUSE HE WAS INITIATED BY A MAHA-BHAGAVATA DEVOTEE, SUKADEVA GOSVAMI.


SB 1.3.40     Krsna Is the Source of All Incarnations

   This Srimad-Bhagavatam is the literary incarnation of God, and IT IS COMPILED BY SRILA VYASADEVA, THE INCARNATION OF GOD. It is meant for the ultimate good of all people, and it is all-successful, all-blissful and all-perfect.


Hirdayananda das “Goswami” states Vyasadeva ---who is INCARNATION OF GOD is not Uttama adhikari.

Just see this nonsense word jugglery written by him.

Narada Muni has accepted Vyasadeva as his Guru and Srila Prabhupada states clearly the Guru MUST BE SITUATED ON THE TOPMOST PLATFORM OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. And the words used are


Hridayananda das “Goswami” has stated “If only those who constantly see the form of Krsna are to be considered uttama-adhikaris, then Narada, Vyasa and Sukadeva cannot be considered topmost devotees, since they do not always see the Lord everywhere.”

Since according to scriptural authority the Guru is MAHA-BHAGAVATA-SRESTHO a Mahabhagavat (topmost devotee) Vyasadeva has NOT made a mistake by accepting Narada muni as his Mahabhagavata Guru. This is the correct conclusion. Hridayananda das “goswami’s” conclusion to suggest otherwise is not only faulty but also blasphemy against these Mahabhagavata devotees of the Lord.


Madhya 24.330  The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse


                     brahmano vai gurur nrnam

                       sarvesam eva lokanam

                      asau pujyo yatha harih


                      maha-kula-prasuto 'pi

                      sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH

                      sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca

                     na guruh syad avaisnavah


Madhya 24.330  The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

   THE GURU MUST BE SITUATED ON THE TOPMOST PLATFORM OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. THERE ARE THREE CLASSES OF DEVOTEES, AND THE GURU MUST BE ACCEPTED FROM THE TOPMOST CLASS. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. It is said: gurur nrnam. The word nrnam means "of all human beings.


"Madhya 24.330  The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

   The maha-bhagavata is one who decorates his body with tilaka and whose name indicates him to be a servant of Krsna by the word dasa. He is also initiated by a bona fide spiritual master and is expert in worshiping the Deity, chanting mantras correctly, performing sacrifices, offering prayers to the Lord, and performing sankirtana. He knows how to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how to respect a Vaisnava. WHEN ONE HAS ATTAINED THE TOPMOST POSITION OF MAHA-BHAGAVATA, HE IS TO BE ACCEPTED AS A GURU AND WORSHIPED EXACTLY LIKE HARI, THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.


Hridayananda das “goswami” has deviated from the conclusion of Srila Prabhupada and manufactured his speculative theory in the purport of his so-called Srimad Bhagavatam. The actual Srimad Bhagavatam is spotless purana but his purports are gross misunderstandings of how he himself has understood it.


."Madhya 17.186 T    The Lord Travels to Vrndavana

                tarko 'pratisthah srutayo vibhinna

                nasav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam

                dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam




   Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued," 'Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. THE SOLID TRUTH OF RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES IS HIDDEN IN THE HEART OF AN UNADULTERATED SELF-REALIZED PERSON. CONSEQUENTLY, AS THE SASTRAS CONFIRM, ONE SHOULD ACCEPT WHATEVER PROGRESSIVE PATH THE MAHAJANAS ADVOCATE.'"


Adi 8.39  The Author Receives the Orders of Krsna and Guru



Adi 9.4           The Tree of Devotional Service

   This is the process for writing transcendental literature. A sentimentalist who has no Vaisnava qualifications cannot produce transcendental writings. There are many fools who consider krsna-lila to be a subject of art and write or paint pictures about the pastimes of Lord Krsna with the gopis, sometimes depicting them in a manner practically obscene. These fools take pleasure in material sense gratification, but one who wants to make advancement in spiritual life must scrupulously avoid their literature. Unless one is a servant of Krsna and the Vaisnavas, as Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami presents himself to be in offering respects to Lord Caitanya, His associates and His disciples, one should not attempt to write transcendental literature.


Adi 9.5           The Tree of Devotional Service

   THIS IS THE SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF TRANSCENDENTAL WRITING. ONE MUST BE AN AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA, HUMBLE AND PURE. One should write transcendental literature to purify oneself, not for credit. By writing about the pastimes of the Lord, one associates with the Lord directly. One should not ambitiously think, "I shall become a great author. I shall be celebrated as a writer." These are material desires. One should attempt to write for self-purification. It may be published or it may not be published, but that does not matter. If one is actually sincere in writing, all his ambitions will be fulfilled. Whether one is known as a great author is incidental. One should not attempt to write transcendental literature for material name and fame.


73-10-14.Pat        Letter: Patita Uddharana:

   The purport is that for TRANSCENDENTAL WRITING ONE MUST BE AN AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA and should write to purify oneself, not for credit. It may or may not be published, but one who is actually sincere in writing, all his ambitions will be fulfilled.


N98:72-12-03    Letter to: Billy Reyburne, (new98)         letters

   Regarding your question about writing songs about Krishna, this is not very important thing.  You can write, but one cannot take it very seriously.  If any Vaisnava is writing song about Krishna, that should be from one who himself has realized Krishna, just like our great saints and acaryas like Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, Rupa Gosvami, six Gosvamins, Bilvamangala, Bhaktivinode Thakur, like that.  THEY ARE SELF-REALIZED SOULS, THEREFORE IF THEY WRITE SOMETHING SONG ABOUT KRISHNA, THAT IS PERFECTLY FROM THE TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM, WITHOUT ANY TINGE OF MUNDANE INFLUENCE OR NONSENSE IMAGINATION.  Unless someone comes in the category of these great leading Vaisnava personalities, his manufacturing some songs will be misleading to himself and to others.  And unless his writing of poems and songs can be accepted as gospel, as Vedas or the Absolute Truth, such writing is diverting the attention from the subject matter only and should not be regarded very seriously.  Now you should become serious to pursue this Krishna Consciousness movement with full energy of body, mind and soul.  If you are writing poems and songs, that's all right, you can do it also, but if you can write articles for our Back to Godhead magazine, that is better, that is solid preaching work.  No one should write songs of Krishna unless he is self-realized soul, that will spoil the value of the whole thing.  But try to use your writing and singing talent for Krishna's preaching work, by writing articles, singing the kirtan, like that.  Then you will be happy, and I think you should without further delay try to become devotees as the others are doing and live with us and practice the regulative principles of brahmacari life.  In this way, become determined to fix your all attention for seeing Krishna face to face by the Krishna Consciousness process and then you shall qualify yourself for writing songs about Krishna and you chant always this Hare Krishna mantra you can come to the highest point of seeing Krishna very soon, you may know it for certain.


In conclusion:

Adi 11.7         The Expansions of Lord Nityananda

   ONE SHOULD NOT WRITE BOOKS OR ESSAYS ON TRANSCENDENTAL SUBJECT MATTER FOR MATERIAL NAME, FAME OR PROFIT. TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE MUST BE WRITTEN UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A SUPERIOR AUTHORITY BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT FOR MATERIAL PURPOSES. If one tries to write under superior authority, he becomes purified. All Krsna conscious activities should be undertaken for personal purification (apana sodhite), not for material gain.



6. This consciousness is a great pleasure for a women psychologically

Formerly, in our days, younger days, although the girl was married at an
early age, she was not allowed to see her husband unless she is grown-up
fully. Unless she has attained puberty, she is not... She lives with her
parents. But she knows that "I have got my husband." This consciousness is a
great pleasure for a women psychologically, that "I have got husband." A
very nice system. And when the girl grows up, puberty, then again another
ceremony is taken. That is almost like second marriage. The girl goes to her
husband, to live with her husband. This was the system.
   So women were taken so much care by the Vedic civilization. Still they
are taken. It is the duty of the father... Until she is married, it is the
duty of the father to give her all protection. Therefore the father wants to
get her married, to get relief from the responsibility. He has a great
responsibility. It is called kanya-daya. Actually the word is called
kanya-daya. Putra-rna. Rna means debt. If you are debtor to somebody you may
not pay it, saying, "Sir, I have no money. Whatever you like, you can do."
But daya means a great burden. It must be get relieved of. Daya means a
great responsibility. Daya. Daya-bhak. Just like a son inherits the property
of the father... It is called daya-bhak, law. Similarly, this is the, I mean
to say, most obligatory duty of the father, to get the daughter married. And
then it is the duty of the husband next. Just like we get... When we perform
marriage ceremony in our society, we get the husband promise that he takes
charge of the girl for life. And the girl agrees to serve the boy for life.
There is no question of divorce.
   So the father hands over the charge to a nice boy. Never mind he is rich
or no. That doesn't matter. He must be a responsible boy, who knows his
responsibility. Not that "Today I marry, and tomorrow I go away. That's
all." Not like that. Still you will find in India, even the poorest man,
living with husband and wife very happily. Still you will find. I have seen
(in) Ahmedabad. One day I saw in the street one husband and wife pulling on
a thela, hand-cart, with great load, and the small child is on the load.
That means their child. They are laborer class. But ordinary laborer class,
poor man, but they are living husband and wife and children happily. Still.

[Srimad-Bhagavatam Lec.1.8.51  Los Angeles, May 13, 1973]



 Now, we are teaching devotional service by the order of spiritual master:
"Our spiritual master has said this; we must follow." That is required,
routine, practice. Just like in India, formerly, the boys and girls were
married at very early age. So I was also married very early age. My wife was
only eleven years old. So I have heard my mother-in-law was married--she was
seven years old and my father-in-law was eleven years old. So this marriage
was performed, but it is not that the husband and wife live together unless
they are mature, grown-up. So there was a system to, in order to... Because
premixing is still not allowed in India, but the husband and wife... The
wife by the elderly members was asked that "Just take this foodstuff,
tiffin, to your husband." So she comes, offers little foodstuff, pan. In
this way they gradually develop their relationship, loving relationship. But
actually, when that love is mature, there is no need of introduction. In the
beginning it is required.

[Lectures Los Angeles, January 15, 1969]

In spiritual life attraction of man & woman in the understanding of
material body hampers very much, therefore, some sort of restrictions are
necessary to check this hampering problem. In spiritual life there is no
allowance of association of man and woman without being married.

[S.P. Letter to: Jadurani Navadvipa 26 October, 1967]


Therefore these things are strictly prohibited for public seeing. These
things... Everyone knows that when there is man and woman or husband and
wife there is..., but not to be publicly exhibited. According to Hindu
system--we have seen it--the wives go to the husband at night and nobody
could see. Everyone... When everyone has gone, all elderly people has gone
to sleep, then the wife goes. And he (she) comes early in the morning so
that nobody can see when she has come out from the husband. This was the
system. And at daytime no wife was allowed to see the husband, especially
young wife. So this sex affair, according to Vedic civilization, is strictly
regulated. It is not that cat's and dog's sex life. Because if you allow the
sex life like cats and dogs, then the society will be cats and dogs. So
these things are to be taken lesson from Srimad-Bhagavatam. All right.

                   Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 6.1.56-62
                        Surat, January 3, 1971
                     (Adubhai Patel's House)