SOME CONTRADICTIONS IN
IRM'S POISON PAPER
If he says contradictory things is he not a rascal ?
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, Philadelphia, July 13th 1975)
Dear Prabhu's please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
following article we would like to point out some contradictory
statements in IRM's paper "Does Srila Prabhupada
Support Poisoning Theory?"
IRM: IRM members are not to propagate any literature or messages to the effect that Srila Prabhupada was deliberately poisoned. Rather they are instructed to at least wait until the outcome of the official investigation on this subject. Our position is that there is not enough evidence present currently on which to form any conclusions, and therefore we shall reserve judgement until concrete evidence comes to light. However members are encouraged to participate in any neutral investigation of this issue, that will help uncover the full truth of the matter.
PSS: No IRM member can propagate any literature or messages to the effect that Srila Prabhupada was deliberately poisoned but the IRM leader and member, rather than waiting for the outcome of the "official investigation on this subject" (as he instructs the IRM members to do) in his next newsletter (no. 9) propagates the Web page chakra, who's view is certainly not neutral. Chakra's view is that Srila Prabhupada wasn't poisoned.
IRM : 1. Srila Prabhupada refers to others stating that he has been given poison. Srila Prabhupada does not himself confirm this, only adding that 'It's possible'.
PSS: Then they contradict themselves by stating in the Final Conclusion:
: Final Conclusion Therefore there is no
evidence from the infallible source of the acarya that he was
being deliberately poisoned. Thus the answer to the title of
this paper has to be 'no'.
PSS: Or in other words their view is:
No Srila Prabhupada Doesn't Support Poisoning Theory !
But earlier they acknowledge that Srila Prabhupada says it is possible. Now they say Srila Prabhupada says no. Earlier they say:
IRM: We must stress that this paper does not prove, nor even attempt to prove, that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned.
PSS: Another contradictory statement. They have tried very hard to prove that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned by trying to eliminate the main evidence, Srila Prabhupada's own words, and the conclusion of their paper is No Srila Prabhupada Doesn't Support Poisoning Theory !
IRM: Our position is that there is not enough evidence present currently on which to form any conclusions, and therefore we shall reserve judgement until concrete evidence comes to light
PSS In their final conclusion or judgement they say of the main evidence, Srila Prabhupada's words:
FINAL CONCLUSION: Therefore there is no evidence from the
infallible source of the acarya that he was being deliberately
poisoned. Thus the answer to the title of this paper has to be
PSS: A very reserved and contradictory judgement.
IRM: The purpose of this paper is to study the actual words of Srila Prabhupada only on the subject of his poisoning. Naturally, we can only rely on the actual words Srila Prabhupada spoke on this issue to determine whether he himself believed that he was deliberately poisoned. Thus the views and opinions of others who were in the room with Srila Prabhupada are of no relevance to us.
PSS: The IRM leader says "we can only rely on the actual words Srila Prabhupada spoke.... the views and opinions of others who were in the room with Srila Prabhupada are of no relevance to us" Later in his paper with his own words he presents a testimony from the Kaviraja, a person who was in the room with Srila Prabhupada, as evidence.
Evidence One final nail in the coffin of the idea that
Srila Prabhupada is himself revealing that he is being
poisoned is found in the following. After the last exchange
Adri Dharan das, who was present at the discussion, asked the
Kaviraja, whom Srila Prabhupada was supposedly revealing all
this to, what Srila Prabhupada had been referring to when he
spoke of poison. Even though in the previous conversation the
Kaviraja immediately jumps to the conclusion that Srila
Prabhupada was speaking of some malicious poisoning, he later
reveals to Adri Dharan that Srila Prabhupada was actually only
referring to the effects of poison having been administered
via bad medicine.
PSS: So he contradicts himself by presenting his and others views, views which he earlier said were of no relevance to him. Now the Kaviraja's testimony which we hear second hand from the IRM leader is presented as evidence but the the following views and opinions of the people in the room are of no relevance to the IRM leader. These views presented in the conversation below clearly reveal that they understood that Srila Prabhupada was now clearly stating what had been previously dicussed as a "possibilty", that is, that someone had poisoned him.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him.
Tamala Krsna: That was the mental distress.
Tamala Krsna: What did Kaviraja just say?
Bhakti-caru: He said that when Srila Prabhupada was saying that, there must be some truth behind it. (People all speaking at once)
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must be some truth to it if you say that. So who is it that has poisoned? (pause)
( S.P.Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana ) Taken from Vedabase.
Final Words We
do not hold the author of the book 'someone has poisoned me'
responsible for deliberately perpetrating falsehood, even
though the mis-translation reported makes a significant
difference to the strength of the case for deliberate
poisoning,. The author appears to have genuinely relied on the
translation work of others, even though it was made clear to
him that the translation provided to him was not to be taken
as accurate. All we would say is that the title of his book
should have been 'It's Possible', for these
are the only words Srila Prabhupada himself offers on the
subject of his poisoning.
PSS We would like to humbly suggest that the IRM should have also, at least concluded the title of their paper It is possible Srila Prabhupada supports the poison theory. Instead they say "Thus the answer to the title of this paper has to be 'no'.
SO IT WILL BE THERE
Prabhupada: This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Krsna movement. In India also, although India's... They will want to crush down this movement. So this will be up to Him. Krsna or Krsna's movement, the same thing. And Krsna was attempted to be killed by Kamsa class of men and his company, the demons. So it will be there; it is already there. Don't be disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Krsna's favor is there, because Krsna and Krsna's movement is not different, nondiff..., identical. So as Krsna was attempted to be killed, many, many years before He appeared... At eighth child, if the mother produces child yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be attempted to be killed. So there may be attempt like that. And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. So they may kill me also.
(S.P.Room Conversation May 3, 1976, Honolulu)
PSS: Srila Prabhupada says there may be an attempt to kill him or his movement. If we look earlier in the conversation he actually says the attempt will be there. This is the clear evidence from the lotus mouth of Srila Prabhupada. He goes on to say it is already there, in other words the poison was been given from as early as May 1976. Srila Prabhupada's health was very bad on May 4th 1976 the day after he said " So it will be there; it is already there"
Later Srila Prabhupada confirms this very clearly.
That same thing … that someone has poisoned me.
( S.P.Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana )
IT IS POSSIBLE
Srila Prabhupada: Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is possible.
PSS: If we look at how Srila Prabhupada always uses the word "it is possible" we will notice he and Lord Krsna use it to say it is a fact ! When it is not a fact Srila Prabhupada says "It is not possible"
TRANSLATION: The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment.
PURPORT: The difficulty of controlling the obstinate mind, as expressed by Arjuna, is accepted by the Personality of Godhead. But at the same time He suggests that by practice and detachment it is possible
And this revival of original consciousness can be executed by hearing, sravanam kirtanam. It is possible. Therefore we stress on the point of sravanam kirtanam.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 5.5.24 Vrndavana, November 11, 1976)
Prabhupada: Spiritual life means... (Hindi) And Dhruva Maharaja starved six months, a boy of five years old. It is possible. He did not eat. Simply tapasya. Hare Krsna
(S. P. Morning Walk April 15, 1976, Bombay)
We are created for His enjoyment, and if we participate in that eternal enjoyment with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we become happy. We cannot become happy otherwise. It is not possible to be happy independently, just as no one part of the body can be happy without cooperating with the stomach. It is not possible for the living entity to be happy without rendering transcendental loving service unto the Supreme Lord.
It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramatma realized yogi to understand Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of mother Yasoda or the charioteer of Arjuna.
The Lord is the master of material nature, and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature. Unless one understands these bare facts, it is not possible to achieve peace in the world either individually or collectively.
PSS: Therefore when Srila Prabhupada says "It is possible" he is saying :
Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is a fact !
He then repeats this, clarifing to the Kaviraja that the poison has been given to "Mujhko : To me."
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
Translation: Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is possible
Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm?
Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain?
Translation: What is he saying?
Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai.
Translation: Someone says that someone has given poison.
Translation: To whom?
Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko.
Translation: To me.
PSS: In the next exchange Srila Prabhupada explains who said he's been poisoned:
Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai?
Translation: Who said?
Srila Prabhupada: Ye sab friends.
Translation: These all friends.
Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?
Translation: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche.
Translation: They all say.
Tamal Krishna: Krishna das?
PSS: Why Srila Prabhupada calls his poison givers friends is clarified by the following quote:
Under the shelter of Vedanta, he's preaching atheism. So therefore they are more dangerous. Just like you are fighting with your enemies, that is very clear. "The other party is my enemy."
But if somebody's treating as your friend and within he's trying to kill you, enemy, oh, that is very dangerous enemy.
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta lecture, Adi-lila 7.109-114 San Francisco, February 20, 1967)
PSS: On forensically tested whispers certain individuals are heard to be whispering about giving Srila Prabhupada poison. In the IRM paper it is said:
IRM: The so called 'whispers' can only be used as supporting evidence once poisoning has itself been proven. Thus they have no role to play yet. (It is also worth noting that in any case the poison proponents themselves admit that the forensic tests on the whispers have a margin of error of up to 20%. Please note that in standard scientific tests that can be put forward as any sort of proof, such as DNA testing, the margin of error is usually as low as 0.0001%, or one chance in a million).
PSS: Whether or not there is an margin of error on forensic tests, Srila Prabhupada's senses are perfect and beyond the errors of a conditioned soul. He says "I do not know, but it is said." We can accept it as a fact after hearing from the perfect source, that there were talks (whispers) of Srila Prabhupada been poisoned. Therefore there is an error margin of ZERO ! Was there any talk of weasels either by Srila Prabhupada or those around him just before his passing away ?
Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega?
Translation: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?
Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said.
( S.P.Room Conversation November 9, 1977, Vrndavana )